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Ness

So what interests me the most (and I hope that's what you're going to address in POST 3) is how DO you adore it despite all the flaws that you choose to ignore? What IS it that you look for that outweighs the bad stuff and makes the tiny details glow? I totally get how that can happen, but I am yet to share your feelings about THIS particular film (as you know from aforementioned EPIC emails!)

katherine

Yes, that's precisely what Post 3 is all about. I'm about to get all up close and personal on the blog.

(No, okay, I'm just being silly, but yes, I'm going to get to that...and it may never change your feelings about the film, which is never the point around here.)

:-)

nakhrewali

I am oh so intrigued now! I like how much thinky thoughts Betaab is generating for you. Even if I don't know what you are talking about I am still enjoying reading them.

Interesting you say Barsaat had taming of the shrew moments - I didn't see them. At least not in the sense that Badal went out of his way to tame Tina. He just kinda took what she dished, remained pleasant, fought with her a bit and then she had a change of heart. But I'll wait for your entry to see what you mean.

katherine

Hee,see, I was running over the reasons why I think I adore this film, and I think one of them is precisely that, that it makes me *think* about all this stuff.

One of the things I do want to touch on at some point (likely with Barsaat) is why the this theme (and its variations -- I think Barsaat contains one of the variations on the theme, where the two partners are so passionate and headstrong, and love and hate are seen as two sides of one coin -- which I think is also there in Betaab, though not as successfully implemented) is so popular, when obviously it proves so very problematic for so many?

Why didn't Shakespeare's play end up sitting on a shelf like some of his less accessible history plays? Why does it, and its variations, persist on being something creative people want to explore -- from resettings of the original play, to musicals and films like "Kiss Me, Kate" to Betaab, to films like Kambakkt Ishq?

Why is it a theme that attracts us even as it repels us?

I think maybe I forgive Betaab because Roma is not actually tamed by anything Sunny *purposefully* does. The taming schtick doesn't actually work on her At All. So, for me, the snake-bite incident is really intriguing, apart from what we're maybe meant to read into it -- because Sunny isn't trying to do anything to break or change Roma at that point. *Circumstances* throw him into a position to do what is absolutely the right thing: save Roma's life. And is it that that changes Roma's attitude? Or is it something mystical, filmi, and magical associated with the snake-bite? (Because, you know, sometimes a snake-bite isn't just a snake-bite).

nakhrewali

Yes, I can see that. Sometimes finding movies that never intended to be analysed generate a lot of conflict and discussion is interesting!

I think we see the characters in Barsaat differently. I don't thin Tina ever hated Badal and I didn't see it on the continuum of the hate-to-love stories that Bollywood does either.

I know, I am always surprised at just how popular Taming of the Shrew really is? I can't recall now if I have read it (likely I did but have forgotten) but it seems kinda misogynistic and yet I really like this adaptation and 10 Things I Hate About You and probably others...WHY!? I know of but haven't seen Kiss Me Kate or KI.

In a way if we go back to Barsaat - it is the same really. Circumstances lead to Tina having to take care of Badal and in the process realise she loves him.

katherine

Bingo -- I think you've nailed what I'm finding similar between Barsaat and Betaab, the change in circumstances leading to the change in the relationship.

I think one day it will be really interesting to go back and compare the two films as launch vehicles for each of the Deol boys. I would do it this month, but I don't have Barsaat on DVD, only on tape, and I think some screencaps would be essential to highlight the similarities and differences.

I need to do one more watch of Barsaat, because I think I need to think a little bit more about Tina, who always tends to get short shrift when I think about that film. :-)

nakhrewali

Huh when I said "I really like this adaptation" above I had a link but that disappeared whoops. I was referring to the BBC one with Rufus Sewell. Anyway not the point of this conversation...

Ah I see. I shall have to watch Betaab sometime, and really you already convinced me to last post!

Ha well I can understand why but I enjoyed her anyway, probably because Badal himself never took her pranks seriously. He would always smile and shrug it off and because of him I could as well. If this was one of those movies (and there have been a few though I can't recall them right now) where the heroine does something bad to get back at the hero and the hero in turn does something back and they are both just making each other mad/hurting each other till one of them goes too far and *then* they have the revelation that they love each other...yeah not sure that would be as enjoyable for me as Barsaat was.

katherine

No, it's not one of those movies :-)

It's a lot of Roma doing a lot of stuff cos she's an insufferable rich snob, and Sunny brushing it off cos he knows he's not as worthless as she would have it just cos he's poor. There's a *wee* bit of back and forth at one point where Roma tries to up the ante, but then one moment where Roma takes things too far.

And it's that moment where in real life, Sunny would have walked away, but cos it's a film, we know it won't end like that.

The part of the film where he insists she rebuild the damage is kind of interesting, because Roma tries to laugh him off, saying her father will cough up some money to deal with it, and Sunny is of the opinion that money just doesn't solve all problems -- it's a bit of a running thread, Roma and her father believing that people can just be paid off and forget everything, especially when they're poor.

So, they don't immediately fall in love right then -- in fact, I think the *revelation* comes after the snakebite, when they start working on rebuilding the farm together. It's not sudden and immediate, it's when they're both nicer to each other and working together on something that the love creeps into it.

I think. But I've thought about this film so much the last couple of weeks I may be *overthinking* it.

Sweta Asher

I love Betaab! I saw it as a thirteen year old and it blew me away then, and still does now. It's visually a treat, Amrita Singh is spunky when she's a spoilt brat and remains spunky through the film - much after her brattish edges get softened by love. And Sunny Deol is so handsome, so strong, so gentle and so sexy... And their chemistry! The part after he saves her life, no dialogue, no song, just set in a montage to a sublime Background score by RD Burman, is my favourite part of the movie... I can happily watch Betaab over and over again...

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